Paz Pisarski has cracked the code on growing a cohort-based community business. She has taken The Community Collective from a meetup group to a community membership that had 102 people in its latest cohort.

While most cohort based programs struggle to find customers after the first cohort, her cohort size has been consistently increasing for 5 cohorts.

Her secret? A "hidden curriculum".

While others focus on hard skills, she designs for belonging. The results are extraordinary:

• Members coming back 5 times to the program
• 780 people on the waitlist
• Community members spanning 18 countries
• A 45-person team of alumni & mentors
• Members begging to stay after graduation

We spent an hour diving deep into how she:

• Creates an unforgettable first 3 days
• Designs both "hard" and "hidden" curriculum
• Scaled from 37 to 102 members per cohort
• Created a seasonal business with 4 months off
• Built a self-sustaining alumni host network
• And what's in her toolkit

This is a must-watch for anyone building cohort-based courses or community programs.

Raw transcript of the episode (edited for readability by ChatGPT)

Intro

Nityesh Agarwal: Welcome to Beginner Maps, where we interview operators of top community businesses so you can replicate the best of what these community creators have already figured out. Today, I am thrilled to have Paz Pisarski with us. Paz is the co-founder of The Community Collective, a global community for community builders that started out of Australia.

She began this community fairly recently after quitting her job in 2022, though the journey started a little earlier with the free version. Today, hundreds of customers have taken her cohort-based program for community building, making her the perfect creator to learn from if you want to build a community business. So, welcome to the show, Paz!

Paz Pisarski: Oh, it's so great to be here. I'm having a lovely day already.

Nityesh Agarwal: I love to hear that! I want to learn all about your community and how it got started. But first, how would you describe your ICP at Community Collective—the people who are joining your cohorts?

Paz Pisarski: Definitely, definitely. It’s great to be here, and I’m very excited to share more about the story.

Origins of The Community Collective

Paz Pisarski: The most unique thing about The Community Collective is that we started as a niche community in Melbourne, Australia, focused on community builders in the startup space. We really honed in on a specific audience group, and over the last three and a half years, we’ve grown organically through word of mouth. Today, we have an audience of over 12,500 people and a community of 700 members across 18 countries.

Nityesh Agarwal: That’s amazing! Starting in Australia is unexpected—I wouldn’t have thought of it as a hub for community builders. You’ve made it feel like Australia is the place to be for community builders.

Paz Pisarski: Australia is the place to be! It’s amazing down under—incredible animals, surf, Vegemite, and a great quality of life.

Nityesh Agarwal: I’m sure it is! But I want to double-click on this. When you started in Australia, was it purely out of a desire to create something for community builders in your country, or did you see a business opportunity from the beginning?

Paz Pisarski: Let’s go back to the beginning. Our story started in 2021 with a meetup group of 17 people. Before that, I spent about six years working in the startup space—running accelerator programs, coworking spaces, online founder communities, and memberships. My role was essentially that of a community manager, and over the years, I’ve held various roles in Melbourne’s startup scene.

It’s worth noting that Australia has a great organization called Australian Community Managers, which has existed for decades. They’ve done incredible work in training, moderation, and research for community managers.

Starting During the Pandemic

Paz Pisarski: In 2020, Melbourne became the second most locked-down city in the world. We went through hundreds of days of stage-four lockdowns: a five-kilometer radius limit, a 6 PM curfew, and restrictions that only allowed an hour outside per day. It was incredibly challenging.

During this time, community builders in the startup space faced distinct challenges. Personally, I shut down a three-story coworking space and moved everything online. I made about 350 courtesy calls to founders—some were thriving, like delivery services, while others, like shoe businesses, were shutting down. It was overwhelming.

So, I started reaching out to other community builders in the startup space. I emailed my network and got introduced to about 50 people. I jumped on calls, asking them about their challenges, goals, and ways we could support each other. What we uncovered was that we were all struggling.

We brought together 17 people between Melbourne’s fourth and fifth lockdowns. We met at The Commons in Cremorne, shared sushi and wine, took off our face masks, and just breathed fresh life into the room. It was amazing to share war stories and support one another. Around this time, I reached out to my now co-founders, Jala Alex and Melia Rainer. Jala was working in a university accelerator, and Melia was at Blackbird Ventures, which backs companies like Canva.

Our meetup went viral. We had an Airtable registration link being shared everywhere, and when lockdowns returned, we moved online. For about a year, we ran free Zoom meetups, using a VC’s Zoom account because our free plan maxed out. We kept getting emails and LinkedIn messages asking for more—coaching, mentoring, frameworks, and support. That’s how the community began to grow.

Transition to a Cohort-Based Program

Paz Pisarski: In 2022, I quit my job. Fast forward to today, and The Community Collective has grown into a financially sustainable business.

Nityesh Agarwal: That’s such a good story. I noticed you mentioned focusing on building stronger founder communities, not necessarily community-builder communities. Was it both?

Paz Pisarski: Everyone in our free meetup community was part of the startup ecosystem. Many of us managed communities of founders—accelerators, incubators, coworking spaces, and venture capital firms with portfolio companies. Our focus was startup support—helping founders build scalable, strong businesses.

That specificity really helped us in the beginning. I met 20 other accelerator managers working online, and it felt like Spider-Man meeting other Spider-Mans! It was validating to have those conversations and realize we weren’t alone.

From Free to Paid

Nityesh Agarwal:
Yeah, that's funny. So, how did this free media community running online and going viral transition into a cohort-based program?

Paz Pisarski:
How it went from a free meetup community to a cohort-based program—basically, we got to 2022. We’d been running the free meetup community for a year. At the time, myself, Melia, and Giles all had full-time jobs, so we were doing this on the side. Things were starting to open up again, and I had moved to the Surf Coast in Australia, where I live now.

We were being bombarded with demand. People wanted weekly meetups, more support, coaching, and answers to bigger questions. When we started doing things in person again, the challenges multiplied. More people wanted to join, and it became unsustainable to manage while working full-time. It was a privilege and a challenge—something we were very fortunate to experience.

Because we struck a chord with such a niche group, we wanted to provide more support. I spoke to Melia and Giles and said, “I’m thinking about going all in, registering this as a company so we can have a foundation to deliver more value.” They said, “Let’s do it.” While they didn’t quit their jobs, they joined as advisory board members, which was amazing.

I quit my full-time job, registered The Community Collective as a company, and bootstrapped it with about two thousand dollars. That covered an accountant to register the company and a website.

We then spent three months interviewing hundreds of people in our free meetup community to understand their challenges, goals, and the support they were looking for. That gave us a clear idea of how we could provide deeper support.

For context, I had run in-person communities in coworking spaces, 10 accelerator programs (time-bound 12-week programs for startup founders), and a year-round monthly membership. From those experiences, I found I loved the accountability and outcomes that time-bound programs provided. Hundreds of people coming together for eight weeks to achieve transformational outcomes—that just felt right.

We gathered insights, collaborated with learning designers from Kaospilot (a Scandinavian school focused on learning and experience design), and built a curriculum to address the community’s challenges. After that, I posted on LinkedIn, saying, “We’re thinking about launching a seven-week program, maybe online in October. Would anyone be interested?” Within 24 hours, 100 people signed up.

That response was confirmation. We designed and launched the program. The first cohort cost about $860 to join, and 37 people signed up. It was phenomenal. We thought if we got five, it would be amazing. Since then, we’ve seen steady growth: 48 in cohort 2, 57 in cohort 3, 76 in cohort 4, 102 in cohort 5. It’s been wild.

We’ve trained hundreds of community builders from companies like Google, Canva, MYOB, and Founders Factory Africa. The impact has been incredible, and it’s all compounded from there.

Nityesh Agarwal:
This growth is incredible. I’ve talked to many community builders running cohort-based courses, and their story is often the opposite. Usually, the first cohort gets a lot of interest, but over time, the numbers drop as the audience saturates. But your story is the opposite.

Masterclass: How to Grow a Cohort-Based Program

Nityesh Agarwal:
Now feels like the perfect time for a mini masterclass on growing a cohort-based community program. First question: How did you fill your first cohort? You mentioned it had 37 people. Was it just from the list of people in your free community?

Paz Pisarski:
Exactly. Leading up to the first program, we’d been building the free meetup community for a year and had about 500 people in it. Then, we made that LinkedIn post, which brought in another 100 sign-ups.

We emailed both groups, saying, “The program is live, here’s the website, this is the price, and you have two weeks to apply.” We also posted on social media. That’s how we got the first 37.

One challenge with the first cohort is that no one wants to be the first. People want to see how it goes before they join. So, it was a huge step for people to say yes to something new, join a Slack group with no one in it, and take a chance.

We built credibility by running meetups and experiences for a year and bringing on 12 respected industry speakers. Without past testimonials or referrals, we relied on trust—both ours and the speakers’.

We also personally called people on the interest list, asking:

1. What challenges are you facing?
2. What goals do you want to achieve?
3. What kind of support are you looking for?

These three questions guided our entire process and have continued to guide my career. Every three months, we ask these same questions to ensure we’re continuously improving and meeting the needs of our community.

The 3 Questions

Nityesh Agarwal: Tell me more about these three questions. What are they?

Paz Pisarski: The role of a community builder is not to make decisions on your own. That’s often a recipe for failure. Success comes from making decisions with your members. You can’t build a community for people; you have to build it with them. It’s not about you or me. The Community Collective isn’t about me, Paz, as a person—it’s about the people we serve.

If I have a role in serving these people, I need to understand their struggles. So, the three questions I ask are:

1. What challenges are you currently facing? This helps uncover pain points—what keeps people up at night, what they’re stressing about or failing at repeatedly. These insights show where transformation is needed.
2. What do you want to achieve? This reveals their aspirations, skills they want to develop, knowledge they seek, and the people they want to learn from. This ensures we can serve them effectively.
3. What support are you looking for? If someone says they don’t need support because they’re already in multiple programs or have mentors, it tells us they’re likely saturated. On the other hand, if they say they’re overwhelmed or don’t know where to start, that’s a clear signal of where we can deliver value. This question also maps out their current support systems and whether they have the capacity to be supported.

Nityesh Agarwal: Do you ask these questions in an automated form or one-on-one?

Paz Pisarski: Both. When people apply for our program, we ask these questions—their challenges, goals, and what they want to achieve—through an application form. Then we meet every applicant for a 20-minute call. We’ve had over 400 applications, and someone from our team speaks to every single applicant. During the call, we dig deeper to understand whether they’re a good fit for the program and if we’re a good fit for them. We only accept people actively building communities to ensure everyone is at a similar stage, creating a compounding effect of impact.

The Hybrid Cohort Model

Nityesh Agarwal: Wasn’t the first cohort in-person, like in Australia?

Paz Pisarski: The cohort has always been 100% online, but it’s hybrid. We have alumni hosts in cities like Brisbane, Perth, Melbourne, Sydney, and Lagos, Nigeria. Nigeria is actually our second-largest participant base. Alumni hosts organize in-person dinners, workshops, and celebrations during the eight weeks to provide in-person connections. Community builders love connecting in person and building deep relationships, so pairing online experiences with in-person elements grounds the experience.

Our cohort now spans 18 countries. To make in-person events feasible, we assign alumni hosts only when a city has more than eight members or alumni. For smaller groups, we facilitate introductions or connections to local contacts. It’s a thoughtful way to foster meaningful local interactions.

Nityesh Agarwal: I love the alumni host concept and the way you allocate them based on city numbers. It’s a smart way to build community locally.

Paz Pisarski: Exactly. You need a method to the madness. We use frameworks and tactics to model what community building looks like—whether online workshops or in-person brunches. Experimenting with and providing access to diverse experiences ensures value and feasibility.

The Eight-Week Program

Nityesh Agarwal: Let’s dive into the programming for your eight-week cohort. How do you coordinate online and hybrid elements?

Paz Pisarski: The program is built on two core components: a hard curriculum and a hidden curriculum.

• Hard Curriculum: These are the tangible skills participants come to learn. For example, building a community strategy, public speaking, streamlining operations, or connecting with fellow community builders. We program online and in-person experiences to address these four key skills.
• Hidden Curriculum: This is what transforms the experience. While people come for the hard curriculum, they stay for the community. The hidden curriculum ensures participants feel heard, belong, and believe this was the best decision of their lives. It includes elements like personalized matchmaking, small group interactions, and intentional programming to foster deep connections.

For example, in the hidden curriculum, we might:

• Match participants with three peers during the first week for support.
• Design intimate weekly sessions where small groups delve deep into discussions.
• Create shared work sessions with music for focus and connection.

These layers ensure participants feel seen, supported, and part of something meaningful. Not everything works for everyone, but it’s crucial to try and go beyond just workshops and content.

Making the First Three Days Exceptional

Nityesh Agarwal: You mentioned making the first three days an incredible experience. How do you achieve that?

Paz Pisarski: It starts with preparation. We have 45 people behind the scenes serving 102 participants for eight weeks. Scaling without jeopardizing the member experience requires an optimal community-to-support ratio. For us, that’s about one support person for every two participants.

Here’s how we make the first three days unforgettable:

• Onboarding as a Welcome: We delay access to Slack and the portal until one day before the program starts, creating a shared sense of anticipation.
• Immediate Engagement: Once participants join Slack, they receive a personal message from me, an automated welcome message, and encouragement to introduce themselves in the intros channel. Alumni mentors monitor these introductions and connect participants with others who share similar interests.
• Community Feel: Within minutes of joining, participants are welcomed by alumni, introduced to peers, and feel part of a vibrant, supportive group. It’s the opposite of being ignored or overlooked.

This structured yet personal approach ensures participants feel seen, valued, and excited right from the start.

Nityesh Agarwal: That’s inspiring. I’m reflecting on how I could have applied these ideas in my past community-building efforts. I love your analogy of creating a waterfall of welcome rather than overwhelming participants.

Paz Pisarski: Exactly. People don’t want to be onboarded; they want to be welcomed.

Steady Growth and Success

Nityesh Agarwal: I think I’m getting the idea of the vibe here and the reason why it’s been so successful as a community. Let’s talk about the numbers specifically. How have you been maintaining a steady growth pace? You mentioned that at the beginning, you’ve been consistently growing the cohort size: Cohort 1 was 36, then 51, 62, 71, and the latest one has 102, right?

Paz Pisarski: A hundred and two.

Nityesh Agarwal: Apart from building and delivering a great community experience, what else are you doing to grow the program?

Paz Pisarski: That’s a great question. I remember launching the first program and thinking, “If no one joins, this will be a great learning experience, and that’s fine.” Maybe if a couple of people join and have a great experience, we’ll wrap it up, and I’ll get a full-time job. Two and a half years later, and five programs in, we’re still here.

Every time we open our doors, I still get nervous. What if no one joins? What if we only get one person? But even if the Community Collective fell apart tomorrow—which I hope it doesn’t—it has been so successful. I feel privileged and proud to do this kind of work.

Delivering Unforgettable Experiences

Paz Pisarski: In terms of growth, the best strategy is to deliver an unforgettable experience to every single individual that joins. It’s not about marketing, partnerships, social media, ads, LinkedIn posts, newsletters, or emails. Your number one priority has to be overdelivering on value for those who say yes to joining. You need to surprise and delight them, help them achieve their goals, remove barriers, and give them undeniable support. If you do that, you’ll be successful.

For example, in our first program, we supported a community manager at a coworking space. Now, he’s sent two of his own team members through the program. We’ve also had three people who joined Cohort 1 and have come back five times since.

When we ran our first program for 36 people, we focused entirely on delivering value. At the end, everyone graduated, and their Slack and portal access wrapped up. Then we cleaned up and prepared to welcome the next cohort. What we didn’t expect was that those 36 people didn’t want to leave. They said, “What do you mean our access ends? We want to stay.” We didn’t have anything for them, so we extended access for six months for free to see why they wanted to stay.

The same thing happened with Cohort 2. No one left. They told us they wanted more support and to stay connected. So we created additional program access where they would never pay full price again.

Discovering Lifetime Memberships

Paz Pisarski: We’ve had people come back to our program five times. There’s even a running tally in the community of who’s attended the most programs. Some people have come back four times, three times, or even twice.

People often ask, “Why would you do a course again?” I asked our members the same question, and they gave me an analogy: Have you ever gone to the same conference twice or read a book more than once? Each time, it’s a different experience because you’re a different person.

The Community Collective operates as a “program-ship,” not a membership. Our alumni keep coming back because of the experience we offer. It’s not just, “I had a great time at this cohort,” but, “I’m doing this five more times, and you should join me.”

After the third cohort, members asked us to create a lifetime “program-ship” instead of paying every time. So we offered a lifetime option, and now 45 people have joined it. This has fueled growth, but it’s also been a challenge. We have to evolve the program constantly because alumni keep coming back. We bring in new speakers and never reuse the same slides, which is hard when you’re balancing 60 new participants and 40 alumni who’ve done it multiple times.

We’ve had incredible guests, like Seth Godin, who spoke at our last cohort. Alumni came back specifically to learn from him. It’s built an amazing energy where people show up twice a year, and during the other ten months, they’re out working, implementing what they’ve learned, and missing the community. Then they return for the next cohort, inspired and ready to grow again.

Scheduling Downtime

Nityesh Agarwal: So you run two cohorts a year, is that right?

Paz Pisarski: Yes, in March and September.

Nityesh Agarwal: And what do you do the rest of the time? Planning for them?

Paz Pisarski: I take two months off each year and another two months to travel. So I have four months of downtime. We’ve built the Community Collective as a seasonal company. Each program is eight weeks, but it takes ten weeks to stand one up, including designing the curriculum, getting speakers, coordinating alumni hosts, mentors, and coaches.

When the program is off, we’re designing the next one, offering coaching, recruitment, and partnerships. That keeps us busy year-round.

Nityesh Agarwal: I love this. I bet everyone listening would find your lifestyle inspiring—working intensely for a few months, taking a break, and coming back recharged. It’s unique.

Paz Pisarski: Don Price from Atlassian said, “For every minute you spend hustling, you need to spend a minute on self-care.” That’s hard to do, but it’s important. We juggle so many demands: work, family, friends, and our own interests. I also run a music business and write relaxation music for meditation and film.

When we’re running a program, we’re fully focused. Then, in the downtime, we work on the business—retrospectives, member feedback, and evolving the program. Running only two programs a year creates scarcity, which is a great community-building tactic. If you don’t apply now, you have to wait eight months. It’s far away, and people don’t want to miss out.

We recently had 780 people on the waitlist. When we email saying doors are open, they know they’ll close in two weeks and won’t open again for months. That energy has been incredible.

Nityesh Agarwal: You’re doing so much to make these cohorts what they are. This has been such an insightful conversation for community creators.

Paz Pisarski: I’m so glad. Thank you!

Tech Tools for Community Management

Q: Let's talk about tools. Your community is on Slack. Why Slack?

Paz Pisarski: The biggest thing to think about when deciding on tech tools is to remember that it's not about the tool itself. It's about where your members already have habits of checking and engaging. It's not about what I prefer but what works for them.

In the early days, we asked our members directly: What tech tools are you using? What do you check every day? What do you enjoy or dislike? We gave them five realistic options—tools we could actually implement—and asked them to vote. Slack was the clear winner. So, we signed up for a free Slack account, and we've been using it ever since.

When we launched our first program, we wanted to spend as little as possible. It was a big test, and we weren't sure if the concept would succeed. Our focus was on delivering a great experience rather than building an elaborate tech stack or perfecting branding. We started with Slack and a tool called Luma Communities, which offered features like member directories, resource libraries, and event registrations. Unfortunately, Luma no longer supports communities, focusing instead on event registration.

Q: What part of Luma Communities did you use?

Paz Pisarski: Luma Communities had a free product that allowed us to create a community space with features like a member directory, resource library, global map, event registrations, and the ability to upload recordings. It was a fantastic tool, so it was disappointing when they discontinued it. That forced us to explore other platforms.

After running the first program and validating our concept, we migrated to a new platform. We evaluated several options, including LMS platforms, Circle, Mighty Networks, Discourse, Hivebrite, and Notion. Ultimately, we chose Disco.co because it was the best fit for running a cohort-based program. Disco is excellent for time-bound experiences, while platforms like Mighty Networks and Circle are better suited for ongoing memberships. Larger brands often use Discourse. For us, Disco has been perfect, and we've been very happy with it.

Q: You're still using Slack for communication but Disco for everything else, right?

Paz Pisarski: Exactly. Slack handles communication, connections, and introductions. We also use tools like Intros.ai, which integrates with Slack to connect members in ways similar to Coffee Roulette or Donut. Disco, on the other hand, hosts all our content since Slack's disappearing messages aren't suitable for long-term resources. This combination works well for us.

Q: Apart from Disco and Slack, what else is in your tech stack?

Paz Pisarski: We use Airtable for forms, Canva for design, Clipchamp for video editing, and about 15 other tools. One of my current favorites is Butter, which we use for online workshops. It's fantastic for engagement.

Q: Can you explain why you chose tools like Butter, even though your members may not be familiar with them?

Paz Pisarski: Sure. Even if Butter isn’t something our members use regularly, it's the platform we use for online workshops. Members join through a link in the calendar invite, so adoption is straightforward. Butter is incredible because it integrates multiple functionalities. Before Butter, I used Zoom with add-ons like Session Lab for agendas, Mentimeter for polls, YouTube or Spotify for music, Google Slides for presentations, and Otter.ai for transcripts. It was a juggling act.

Butter integrates all these features, making the facilitator's job much easier. It provides AI summaries, transcripts, recordings, and even fun elements like GIFs and soundboards. It also supports agendas, private notes, and interactive tools like drawing on the screen. Now, when I run an event, everything is on one screen. It's streamlined and enhances the experience for everyone.

Q: That sounds amazing. One last question before we wrap up: How do you balance using tools your members already know with introducing new ones?

Paz Pisarski: It’s a balance. Tools like Slack align with members’ existing habits, making engagement easier. For tools like Butter, which are new to most members, we ensure they’re essential and easy to adopt. For example, Butter is the only way to join our workshops, so it’s straightforward.

The key is to make the tools work for your members, not the other way around. If a tool enhances the experience and integrates seamlessly, it’s worth introducing.

Nityesh Agarwal: Thank you for sharing all these insights. We'll include links to these tools in the show notes. This has been fascinating.

Team of 45

Nityesh Agarwal: So, the second-to-last question is, let's talk about your team. You mentioned you have 45 people serving 102 members. Not all of them are full-time working with you, so can you give me a breakdown of who these people are?

Paz Pisarski: Yeah, of course. So, in that group of 45 people, we have mentors, alumni hosts, alumni editors, coaches, our core team, and ambassadors. This whole multifunctional group consists of either community members who have taken on roles or people on our core team.

On our actual team, there are four of us at the moment. We work year-round, whereas the coaches, mentors, and others only show up when the program is running. We all work together during those times.

Nityesh Agarwal: And how do you recruit all of these people? You mentioned a lot of them are alumni, so you're probably able to get your most engaged alumni into the program?

Paz Pisarski: Yeah, it was actually alumni who came up with many of these roles. At the end of the first program, we had people in Melbourne and Sydney volunteer, saying, "Hey, I’m happy to run some dinners, connect people, and get to know others." They asked for inside scoops on our playbook for running events, our briefs, and behind-the-scenes processes so they could help host.

We thought, "Wow, that's really beautiful." So, we allocated alumni hosts in Sydney and Melbourne as the first two locations and equipped them with titles and credibility. We provided them with playbooks, hosted kickoff calls, and supported them in running great events. Their role was to run two dinners, while we handled operations in the background.

After those two alumni became hosts, others started volunteering to do the same in places like Perth, Brisbane, and even Lagos, Nigeria. It was organic. Members were craving in-person connections in locations we hadn’t yet covered. Now, we have an expression of interest form for those who want to be hosts or mentors. Currently, we have about 42 people interested, but there are only so many roles, and existing hosts have priority to renew. For example, the Sydney spot hasn’t opened in two years because the same people have stayed on, which is wonderful.

As for ambassadors, we have a waitlist and open applications twice a year. For coaches, we choose based on the current needs of our members, identifying gaps and finding people well-suited to address those gaps.

Nigeria as a Key Community

Nityesh Agarwal: Let’s wrap up with something you mentioned earlier: the story of how Nigeria became your second-largest community. What’s the story there?

Paz Pisarski: Oh, yeah. In cohort one, we invited a speaker from Nigeria, Jephta Abdu, who is incredible. We had been on a panel together at the CMX Summit online, and I loved his perspective on building diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) within communities. We invited him to speak in our first program, not realizing how famous he is in Nigeria.

When he started posting about the program, people from Nigeria began applying. It was amazing. We now have over 200 people from Nigeria on the waitlist, and I get LinkedIn DMs all the time. Many alumni from Nigeria have gone through the program and spread the word, creating a network effect.

However, the average salary for a community manager in Nigeria is about 1,200 AUD per year, while our program costs 2,400 AUD. That’s two years of someone’s salary—it’s inhumane to ask them to pay that much. So, we built a scholarship program. In the first cohort, we funded scholarships out of our own pockets. Since then, we’ve supported many scholarships for people in Africa, female founders, and others experiencing financial hardship. It’s been a beautiful way to provide access to education for those who need it most.

Early Challenges and Lessons

Nityesh Agarwal: One final question: What kept you up most nights when you were building your community? And, as a corollary, what should creators listening to this podcast spend their nights thinking about?

Paz Pisarski: In the early days, I had way too much on my plate. I didn’t anticipate the demand. I want to emphasize how grateful I am for that demand because I know how tough it is to run a company, a course, or a community. But at the time, I didn’t realize how hard it would be to get everything off the ground. Building a course from scratch takes so much time—designing processes out of thin air and "building the plane while flying it."

I remember quitting my job to design the first program while also working other jobs, playing music gigs on weekends, and launching an album that same month. It was way too much. I was up at night wondering how I’d fulfill all my commitments and where I could make space in my life.

One turning point was when I ran an album launch event for 120 people. I was so exhausted, even though everyone else was relaxed. That’s when I decided: when I run programs, I do nothing else. If you’re listening and feel overwhelmed—getting irritated at your phone, frustrated, or constantly overbooked—take this as a sign to set boundaries. Saying no to others often means saying yes to yourself.

Here’s an analogy I use: Are you in a prison or a palace? In a prison, you’re chained to your commitments, at their mercy. In a palace, you’ve built something wonderful, you have help, and you can show up where you’re needed. To get out of the prison, play the "opposite game": if your past self would have said yes to a commitment, consider saying no. Focus on what fills your cup so you can fill others’.

Nityesh Agarwal: I love this. What a beautiful analogy and a great note to end on. It’s been fantastic talking with you, Paz. I’ve learned so much, and I’m sure everyone listening will, too. Thank you so much for joining us.

Paz Pisarski: Thank you. And just remember, everyone is trying their best—that’s all we can ever ask for.